Celia Dale! Bernice Rubens! Stupidity! Welcome to episode 142 of Tea or Books?
In the first half of the episode, we ask if we can like characters in novels who make stupid decisions. In the second half, we compare Other People by Celia Dale and A Five Year Sentence by Bernice Rubens.
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The books and authors we mention:
Literary Gardens by Sandra Lawrence (ill. by Lucille Clerc)
Elizabeth and Her German Garden by Elizabeth von Arnim
Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier
The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett
Hallowe’en Party by Agatha Christie
‘The Garden Party’ by Katherine Mansfield
Blue Postcards by Douglas Bruton
Hope Never Knew Horizon by Douglas Bruton
The Truth About Blayds by A.A. Milne
The Dover Road by A.A. Milne
They Came To Baghdad by Agatha Christie
Honourable Estate by Vera Brittain
South Riding by Winifred Holtby
Daisy’s Aunt by E.F. Benson
Patricia Brent, Spinster by Herbert Jenkins
P.G. Wodehouse
Margery Sharp
Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
The Remains of the Day by Kazuo Ishiguro
A Pin To See The Peepshow by F. Tennyson Jesse
Oscar Wilde
A Comedy of Errors by William Shakespeare
Cassandra at the Wedding by Dorothy Baker
The Secret History by Donna Tartt
Peter Pan by J.M. Barrie
Black Narcissus by Rumer Godden
Hot Milk by Deborah Levy
Crooked Cross by Sally Carson
Autumn by Ali Smith
The Performance by Claire Thomas
The Lonely Passion of Judith Hearne by Brian Moore
William’s Wife by Gertrude Trevelyan
The L-Shaped Room by Lynne Reid Banks
My Darling Villain by Lynne Reid Banks
Fear Stalks The Village by Ethel Lina White
Douglas Bruton is such a great writer, and also a lovely man – I hope you like his other books (I adore them all!) As for characters making bad choices, I think we have to still love them. It would be dull if all of our characters were perfect and did the right thing!! Thoroughly agree about Blue Postcards – a quietly powerful work.
I remember you were an enthusiast for the other Bruton books, so that definitely bodes well!
Well, before listening to the podcast episode, I have my visceral answer to this.
No I cannot. One, maybe, but as they add up, I find myself getting very judgy, and I know that there’s no point in spending any further time with someone who’s Too Stupid To Live. Yes, it’s a common trope, especially in mysteries or suspense novels.
Old chestnuts like that phone call, “Aunt Cora has broken her hip. Come at once. We’ll send a car for you.”
Of course, half the time it’s the author being lazy, or not caring much about whether their character has a rational brain. Hmm, how can I get my character into trouble again? I know… I’ll have her marry that guy who’s clearly a self-centred jerk.
So many books, so little time. So let’s not waste it on TSTL characters.
I love this impassioned response, Susan! I’ll be interested to know if our conversation has changed your position at all. It definitely depends on why it’s done, IMO.
Blue Postcards and Hope Never Knew Horizon are my favourite of the four Bruton books I have read. I think you will love HNKH – that is a treat to look forward.
As for the question of whether we can like characters who make stupid decisions, my initial reaction to this was ‘yes’ and I maintained that stance during the discussion. However, I think that is is very good point about the difference between liking and respecting. I would be frustrated with a book that seemed to have a character repeatedly make foolish decisions, especially if it seemed it was just so that the plot would work better.
I have saved the second half of this episode to listen to after I have (hopefully) been able to read Other People. I have been waiting to collect it from the library. I did enjoy The Five Year Sentence; I found it a compelling, page turner despite the fact that it was really quite bleak, with some loathsome characters.
Ah that’s excellent news, Sarah, and well chosen by Douglas Bruton!
I so enjoyed this discussion topic, and really glad Rachel thought of it. And a word of warning about the second half – I have since learned that Other People is a sequel, which I don’t remember the paperback saying anywhere.
Thanks for that warning Simon. I have to confess I found out by accident (I skipped to check the books for the next episode) that you both preferred A Five Year Sentence, so I then went back to listen to the rest of the discussion. I think you have saved me from reading Other People. I just do not feel drawn to it after hearing what you and Rachel said about it; if it is a sequel too then that seals it. And I do have plenty of books I do want to read in my various piles of tbrs! It would have been my first Celia Dale but I think I will try one of her other ones instead, steeling myself rather as I was wary of them for being too dark for me; I will have a cosier read ready for bedtime reading!
I’m so glad you both liked A Five Year Sentence, Simon. I enjoyed your discussion immensely. Other Ruben’s’ titles I’d recommend are The Waiting Game and The Elected Member, which won the Booker Prize. I still have a few of her books on my TBR shelf.